Blue Cavern

Tine brought up a very interesting thing in another thread and I was wondering, what do we as smurf collectors consider a rare smurf.

I am sure that the answers will differ very much, and I hope we can have an honest and open discussion about it without getting our feelings hurt or taking offense.

Here are some questions to think about and maybe it will make it easier to get the discussion started

1. Which smurfs do you consider rare?

2. Are there smurfs that you consider so rare that you don't actively look for them because you don't think you will find or can afford them?

3. Would you buy smurfs that you consider rare on ebay or do you want to be able to hold them in your hands and examine them before committing to buy them?

4. Is a smurf that some of your friends have less rare for you than one that may have been released in the same number but not many collectors that you know have?

5. If you were to come across a "normal" smurf painted in colors that aren't in any catalog, would you outright dismiss it as a fake or do you believe there are color variations out there that we haven't found yet?

I am going to answer my own questions

1. I do think the rarity of a smurf depends on where you are located. For American collectors a lot of promos are pretty much unattainable and we probably are willing to spend a lot of more money on i.e. a Jubilee smurf than other collectors. This fact was brought home to me on my last visit to Germany when I found Jubilees for around 5 euros at a fleamarket (and they were the higher prices smurfs). I have spent way more than that for my other Jubilees that I bought on US ebay. I was also told that the Silan smurfs and other promos are really not rare in Europe, but over here you can see them go for high prices.

This works as well the other way round: In the US the four applause super smurfs aren't really superdouper rare and I was surprised when I was able to trade mine in for some smurfs that were pretty much unattainable for me otherwise. The same is true with the Kinder egg smurfs. You hardly ever see them (especially the monoblocs) on US ebay but on German ebay they are as common as sand on the beach. Are they rare smurfs..not really but much harder for me to get and more expensive as well..so I really think a lot depends on location.

2. yes, there are many smurfs I dont' think I will ever own and I don't even actively pursue them although I have been proven wrong and now own quite a few of them. (I have to say I got them from seller (s) I 100% trust and they aren't full time sellers either)

3. I personally haven't really gone into the "one of a kind" or rare color variations because I have no way of holding the smurf in my hands before buying it, nor would I even be able to tell if it is an original product or not. To say that a lot of the sellers with their own coloring line at home have kind of spoiled this for me would be an understatement. It really has come to that I won't believe a seller to tell me the truth, nor would I trust myself to know the truth. I do know that a lot of collectors have the opportunity to go to fairs and to see the smurfs up front before buying and I am really happy for those of you who can.

4. It does become interesting in regards to the recent Schoenwald sockels. Thanks to Tojo's help, pretty much everybody on here got the last three or four sockels so I am sure a lot of us would not consider them rare at all...however, they were only produced in a limited number (500 I think) so do we still consider them rare or do we not because so many of us have at least one of them?

5. I think I'd want to see catalog proof for that smurf


Just as a add-on to which I really hope nobody takes offense. I may come across of taking too harsh a stand when it comes to "ultra-rare" smurfs and as too distrusting..but while I believe the variations exist, I don't think they are common enough that everybody should look for them...That will only increase the wealth of above mentioned sellers.
I also don't consider a collection with many "ultra-rare" smurfs more special than a collection comprised of more common smurfs, as each collection has something unique about it and really represents the character of it's owner

I don't know why any one would take offense to any thing you said. I acctualy agree with you on almost every point. I do on occasion buy a Smurf lot because I see one or two that I don't have. But I don't usually go after the High dollar Smurfs on ebay.

1. Which smurfs do you consider rare?
I'd say the three Christmas prototypes, since one might easy find the American/Aussie and UK smurfs, which are still considered to be rare in any of the catalogues.

2. Are there smurfs that you consider so rare that you don't actively look for them because you don't think you will find or can afford them?
I have been proven wrong various times as well. However I highly doubt, that I would ever be able to afford the Christmas prototypes.


3. Would you buy smurfs that you consider rare on ebay or do you want to be able to hold them in your hands and examine them before committing to buy them?
I preferably buy rare smurfs from a trustworthy seller at a smurf fair, so that I'll be able to examine them myself first.

4. Is a smurf that some of your friends have less rare for you than one that may have been released in the same number but not many collectors that you know have?

I'd say the Jubilee, Silan and McDonalds smurfs are not that rare over here.


5. If you were to come across a "normal" smurf painted in colors that aren't in any catalog, would you outright dismiss it as a fake or do you believe there are color variations out there that we haven't found yet?
In terms of color variation, I'd check my catalog for ask my smurfy friends first. By means of marking and /or dot variation, I buy the particular smurf without hesitation.

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Hi Maureen,

Many questions.

Why would anybody take offense? You have the right to have your opinion and I agree with your thinking. But in the same time I understand collectors who has rare colourpaintings. Maybe they have had that smurf since childhood and know it is genuine and then they offcouse don´t want is to be considered as a fake.

As Anette told me about the SLA- and TSL-singers she only wants to sell these to collectors she knows because there are many skilled persons who easily can make fakes of these and that would not be good for the value of these smurfs.

This is the problem with all collector-items that becomes valuable. There is always people wanting to make money and prepared to make fakes. It has always been like this. For hundreds of years.

So I guess it is up to each collector to deside what you want to pay for a smurf.

Me personally I really like paintversions, but I wouldn´t pay so much for these if I wasn´t sure where they came from. Because I used to paint a lot myself before I got children( don´t have the time now) and know how easy I could paint a smurf to make it more valuable.

But because every smurf is handpainted I don´t doubt there are several genuine smurfs with paintversions that is not in any cataloges and still is as genuine as any other smurf.

I don´t think you should be afraid to step on anyones toes, Maureen!!

I like you anyway.

/André

These are all difficult questions but I shall try to answer them as best I can.

1. Which smurfs do you consider rare?
The smurfs which I consider rare are those produced in small amounts or were produced for only one geographical location such as the Australian blue lolly smurf. Although that smurf is not rare if you live down under compared with if you live in Europe.

2. Are there smurfs that you consider so rare that you don't actively look for them because you don't think you will find or can afford them?
Muster smurfs, the xmas prototypes, philips promos. The Commerzbank/MERC ice hockey keyring which I don't have also falls into this category & I just don't think I'd be able to afford it without Mrs Tojo giving me very disapproving looks...

3. Would you buy smurfs that you consider rare on ebay or do you want to be able to hold them in your hands and examine them before committing to buy them?
Smurfs like that I'd never buy on ebay. I'd only buy them from someone I trusted such as Michelle & Veronique as I know they would never sell something that wasn't genuine.

4. Is a smurf that some of your friends have less rare for you than one that may have been released in the same number but not many collectors that you know have?
I don't know

5. If you were to come across a "normal" smurf painted in colors that aren't in any catalog, would you outright dismiss it as a fake or do you believe there are color variations out there that we haven't found yet?
I think it is quite possible that there are unknown paint variations out there. A Schleich painter might have painted one of her figures differently for her daughter or friend for example. That smurf would be unique but not official of course.

There are more examples I can think of too concerning smurfy items as opposed to the pvc's.
German mustard jars - only available in Germany but are very cheap & you get free mustard with them
The new smurfs in the USA aren't available anywhere else so for everyone else they are rare.
Feves are a French tradition
Spanish fakes are easier to get in Spain

Of course as we've discussed before, ebay has caused some smurfs which used to be rare to become less rare in collections (jubilee smurfs, historical smurfs for example).

1. Which smurfs do you consider rare?

There are quite a few rare smurfs out there....like everyone else says rare in some cases does depend on region. Then there are the ones like the Christmas prototypes that are rare worldwide. The fact that too many of these came out on ebay over a short period of time made me quite wary that those were in fact originals.

2. Are there smurfs that you consider so rare that you don't actively look for them because you don't think you will find or can afford them?

I don't actively look for rare smurfs but if I stumble across one, I decide then if I can afford it or not. I have acquired a few nice items this way.

3. Would you buy smurfs that you consider rare on ebay or do you want to be able to hold them in your hands and examine them before committing to buy them?

I tend to avoid the rarities on ebay because nowadays there are just too many sellers out there looking to rip off people. Plus without being able to see it close up, it is difficult to tell if it may or may not be faked.

4. Is a smurf that some of your friends have less rare for you than one that may have been released in the same number but not many collectors that you know have?

No, if it's rare, it's rare! But if it's obvious that a "rare" smurf is not an original, I would tell a friend so they know the possibility exists that they may just have a fake smurf

5. If you were to come across a "normal" smurf painted in colors that aren't in any catalog, would you outright dismiss it as a fake or do you believe there are color variations out there that we haven't found yet?

This is why there is the saying "If it's too good to be true, then it probably isn't true." I definitely believe there are certain color variations that exist but when you see a flood of these on ebay, you really have to stop and wonder about this, especially if it is an untrusted or unknown seller. There is a reason that certain color variations are rare -- it's because they aren't easily found or owned by everyone. Like I said before, it's too easy for untrustworthy sellers to rip buyers off on ebay. Caveat Emptor!

1. Which smurfs do you consider rare?

It is difficult to explain with my english vocabulary what a rare smurf is in my opinion, but I will try it. Of course Christmas prototypes are rare because only a few of them were made. Fischer with ribbon or scuba with feet on floor are rare because of the same reason. But..who know how many smurfs of each model were really made???There are so many theories!!!!If we consider a rare smurf, a smurf not often found at collections, I could say my captain with stripped shirt or my cowgirls (both spanish fakes) are rarer than prototypes because I know more people who own prototpes (10-12 collectors) than own those fakes. Do we strictly use the word "rarity" to speak about licensed smurfs????if rare means "no often" I think I have explained what a rare smurf is for me
2. Are there smurfs that you consider so rare that you don't actively look for them because you don't think you will find or can afford them?

According with what I consider as rare, there are many rare smurfs I am looking for but there are many rare smurfs too that I am not looking for for the just reason I don´t know about its existence (an example: I have found argentinian fakes I never have seen in friends collections so I didn´t know they existed but when I found it, it became a rare for me. I like to think there are not smurfs I won´t ever own. I am optimist


3. Would you buy smurfs that you consider rare on ebay or do you want to be able to hold them in your hands and examine them before committing to buy them?

Ebay is becoming a jungle to look for smurfs, but again according with my meaning of "rare", I buy smurfs on ebay

4. Is a smurf that some of your friends have less rare for you than one that may have been released in the same number but not many collectors that you know have?

Answered above

5. If you were to come across a "normal" smurf painted in colors that aren't in any catalog, would you outright dismiss it as a fake or do you believe there are color variations out there that we haven't found yet?

THERE IS SUCH A BIG SMURFY WORLD NOT INCLUDED IN GUIDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fascinating topic, and one that took some consideration


1. Which smurfs do you consider rare?
Agree with the above posters that a lot of this has to do with where you actually live and look, but at the same I love that and have been able to buy many smurfs I would not have ever been able to afford cos I have bought them from the French/German/Australia/US ebay.

At any rate, rare to me are smurfs either that "we" strongly believe weren't released in large numbers (e.g. SCII ones) or which are so expensive the number of people who have then is likely to be less e.g. my rarest I would say is Smurfette Baseball (fortunatley I had her as a kid) or ones that I have difficulty finding that exact version even if it isn't that expensive when I do e.g. I was made up when I finally got the all white policeman which cost £3 but I'd spent as many years searching for.


2. Are there smurfs that you consider so rare that you don't actively look for them because you don't think you will find or can afford them?

Hum, for me it's more if they're that rare, they are also probably that expensive and ergo frequently faked or (quite justifiably) they will be expensive when you buy them from a trusted collector. On that basis how hard I will for a 'rare' smurf has a lot to do how much I like the given smurf proportionally to how much it costs e.g. put a lot of effort searching for pastel baby with blocks and reguarly searched for, variations of thirsty, put no effort into as aren't that keen on the smurf.

3. Would you buy smurfs that you consider rare on ebay or do you want to be able to hold them in your hands and examine them before committing to buy them?

Under my definition, yes to a rare smurf that I just wanted that version but wasn't going to spend more than about £20 on. Wouldn't buy a smurf more expensive than that if I thought it could be faked unless it was from a seller I trusted.

4. Is a smurf that some of your friends have less rare for you than one that may have been released in the same number but not many collectors that you know have?

No I don't think who else has it matters much to me.

5. If you were to come across a "normal" smurf painted in colors that aren't in any catalog, would you outright dismiss it as a fake or do you believe there are color variations out there that we haven't found yet?
Yes I believe in colour versions we/I haven't found yet e.g. I had baby in yellow baby grow with a blue front block which wasn't in DSK IV but I know to be genuine as had as a child. I would tread with care though and guage others opinions.