Blue Cavern

Hi again,

I wanted to share some of my thoughts here.

I get more and more conviced about this.

Dupuis union smurfs were licensed around 1975. Later unlicensed with erased markings.

Pat marked spanish smurfs licensed around 1975. Maybe promos or give aways.

Eura spain smurfs licensed around 1977/78. Maybe promos or give aways??

CNT´s smurfs licensed in the beginning 1977/78. Later unlicensed and painted in many lovely colours.

Only the smurfs painted "strictly" in "Peyomanner", like the Schleich and Bully smurfs are licensed. Only some exceptions were made for promos, or similair reasons.

The reason for this is that during these years Bully made the smurfs. When the popularity of the smurfs increased peyo had to make smurfs for other markets in other countries. Because of Bullys limited productionpossibilities in the beginning peyo had to make these elsewhere outside Germany. In the beginning when Schleich started making the smurfs again they also probably had them made before getting everything together.

That is also one of the reasons Peyo wanted Schleich to be the worldwide manufacturer. Bully did not have the productionpossibilities to make smurfs for the whole world as Peyo wanted when he saw the possibilities after the movie was shown in the cinemas in the late 70s.

Just thinking loud now??

Yes, it could be like that! This all makes sense to me!

And the unmarked Pitufhogar smurfs had a peyo license, according to the boxes, packages.

Only the spanish smurfs, marked pvc no toxico, were probably not licensed.

Lia

It has sense to me too, but why to license smurfs without markings???It is true that the possibilities of Bully were lower than Schleich ones, but if Peyo looked for a spanish enterprise to make smurfs, it would be logic that they marked the smurfs...

Why do you think CNTs were licensed for a year? Like Joaquin I am not sure why licensed smurfs in the 70s would not have a marking

I have been thinking about your words André...As always very interesting

But I have some questions to add:

- I'd say 1975 is too early for those smurfs...At 1975 I was 1 year-old, and I have for example eura spain drummer and pat smurfs since I was a child. I am sure I didn´t find those pieces before 1980-2

- time ago I contacted with the daughter of one of the biggest distributor of pvc figures at Spain and she told me the story she had always listened at home. A couple of owner of a big store of toys at Barcelona travelled to Germany every year to visit toys fairs. At germany they saw smurfs for their first time (early 80's) and bought them to sell at their store. It was a UNEXPECTED succes and they decided to become manufacturer (comic figuras s.l) and tried to get the license (no luck for them)They built a little factory (it was not hard to get the machines at catalonia, where they lived. It was the spanish region with the biggest number of factories of toys) and the began to make smurfs and others figures without license and even without their own marking at them (CF). They made not only smurfs but other figurines without license. The big problem for them began when Yolanda (who had the rights for distribute schleich smurfs at Spain) brought a lawsuit and won the action. Meanwhile the action, they manufactured about 60 different smurfs (she knows this because his father kept one piece of all the figurines he sold from the factory of comics figuras and she keeps yet the collection (she tried to sell them to me but it was expensive, I only wanted smurfs (ant the collection had more tham 800 pieces) and most of 60 smurfs I had yet at my collection). When Yolanda won the action they stopped with smurfs and looked for other license as Disney. Both Yolanda figures (schleich) and comics figuras s.l (the smurfs called for us cnt) were normally sold at the same stores.

Three/four years ago, I asked to the owner of the store where I usually bought smurfs when I was a child, why they sold smurfs with and without markings. And he was who told me that they bought smurfs from Yolanda (with markings Schleich) and from comics figuras (cnt). That fact explains that I have schleich smurfs and cnt smurfs since I was 8-9 years old and all of them where bought exactly at the same store

Of course all this woman told me could be wrong but it was what she remember...and as far as she remember, all began early 80's

I will try to remember more things...

Thanks for the answers.

That is why I wrote it here, and get your opinions.

I will get back with replies later today when I am at home.

One fast reply though. Remember that both Schleich and Bully had no marking or only peyo marking when they started making smurfs.

And can you tell me which CNT smurfs have peyo markings except Schleich new mold smurfette?

I have some Eura smurfs too since 1980. They were at shops.
Anyway what was Eura? I don't think they were official. Being at shops doesn't mean to be official.
Today we can find bootlegs records and DVD's at some big stores (FNAC for example) and they are still boots.
I remember some ad in the 1980's spanish newspapers warning about the fake smurfs. I have the clipping somewhere.

But all eura spain smurfs have a marking with eura spain, peyo, so I think,they must have had a license?

Lia

If I do a smurf and put on it Eura Spain it will be licensed?
What about the China McDonald's smurfs? Or the Zodiaque-Horoscope Schleich from China? Are they licensed?
They have the markings Schleich and Peyo so they must be licensed, don't them?
No. Only IMPS-Peyo decide what is licensed and what not.
Those China smurfs are fake, as the Apple or Ikea fake stores.
And relating the Eura smurfs...I suppose it's the same case.

I have some Eura smurfs too since 1980. They were at shops.
Anyway what was Eura? I don't think they were official. Being at shops doesn't mean to be official.
Today we can find bootlegs records and DVD's at some big stores (FNAC for example) and they are still boots.
I remember some ad in the 1980's spanish newspapers warning about the fake smurfs. I have the clipping somewhere.

Both you and Joaquin could very well be correct.

And since you are from Spain I think you are better judges than me.

But as Lia says the eura spain smurfs are marked and have peyo markings.

But as you say they could very well have been sold in shops. Regarding the years 1980 is possible. The reason for the year is the variation of Smurfette both Eura Spain and CNT has. This Schleich made in 70s. But it is shown in Schleich catalogue from 1979 so most likely it was made around 1978. But as you said 1979 is also possible and then sold 1980. The funny thing with this Smurfette is that it is not marked Schleich. Just like some other smurfs, Schleich for some reason made smurfs marked only W germany and peyo. Could be they used stickers on those???

I don´t know much about the CNT´s and the other but find them very intresting regarding the history. And the quality is very good and when using Schleich and Bully molds they either are fakes or used together with peyo or those companies.

So CNT´s are sometimes marked Peyo and had a CNT sticker? Why would they only mark some of them with peyo? Could be like you says Joaquin that they made this because they tried to get the license. But why add the peyo marking before getting the license?
But your story could very well be the genuine one and then CNT´s were never licensed!!

Eura Spain smurfs also has the Schleich Smurfette meaning made probably 1979 or a few years after also. Are there only 6 of them? All of the molds made before the Smurfette. All in strict peyo colours and all good quality and with perfect marking. This also could have been before Schleich started their factory in portugal 1980, so then they could have had some company making smurfs in spain???

As said before Schleich did not use company markings on all their smurfs so it is possible.

Also the PAT marked smurfs are correct in colours and very nicely made from the same molds. In this case a lot of them are Bullymolds and also a small face naughty like with the Dupuis union tells us they most likely are early smurfs from around 1976. No molds after 1976 with this marking or?

Of course these are just my guesses and licensed or not I am trying to get the approximate years on these smurfs.

There are a few things telling us if they could be licensed or not. First the colours. Peyo, Schleich or Bully would have wanted them painted almost the same in all countries, with some exceptions, right?
another thing is that peyo most certainly would have wanted his name on the items or packaging.

then we have the companyname. These many times like with the Schleich and Bully smurfs are not primarily needed. that is most likely up to the manufacturer, like on the Dupuis smurfs. Dupuis and Peyo wants their name somewhere when asking the companies to make these, but in the beginning the manufacturer maybe thinks it is not needed.

Then we have the legal things. Why put their companyname or sticker with it on fake smurfs. It would be extremly stupid and like telling Peyo who made them. If making fakes or unlicensed smurfs a companyname would be foolish according to me. But maybe their could be reasons I can´t think of??

I would agree if made in countries where the legal system was very limited???

The story you tell Joaquin makes very much sence, but for me it would be more logical if they were licensed smurfs and sold with stickers in the beginning and then lost the license, maybe already in the initial stage?? Like with the southamerican smurfs. If it was not for the packaging in the SCCI letters saying they were licensed and the fact that Schleich tells in their new book they had smurfs made in Southamerica, nobody would have known if these were licensed or not. So evrything is possible??

This could be very wrong but see this as a "idea" for discussion and not as if I am telling you it is a fact, because as usual I am just thinking loud!

If I do a smurf and put on it Eura Spain it will be licensed?
What about the China McDonald's smurfs? Or the Zodiaque-Horoscope Schleich from China? Are they licensed?
They have the markings Schleich and Peyo so they must be licensed, don't them?
No. Only IMPS-Peyo decide what is licensed and what not.
Those China smurfs are fake, as the Apple or Ikea fake stores.
And relating the Eura smurfs...I suppose it's the same case.

You are correct,

but that is not what I mean.

When making a fake of something you would like to make it look like the original, ALSO with that marking. Meaning like you say marking it Schleich and peyo.

But what makes these items more intresting is that they also have other markings.

For example if someone would make a copy of a apple phone they would most likely not be so stupid to put also another company name or another marking on it, right?

that is why the smurfs marked Hering, Minimodels, Dupuis union, etc are intresting. Off course this don´t mean they are licensed and genuine! But far more intresting if you ask me!

I have some Eura smurfs too since 1980. They were at shops.
Anyway what was Eura? I don't think they were official. Being at shops doesn't mean to be official.
Today we can find bootlegs records and DVD's at some big stores (FNAC for example) and they are still boots.
I remember some ad in the 1980's spanish newspapers warning about the fake smurfs. I have the clipping somewhere.

If you would find that newspaper-reportage I would love to read it.

With a bit help with the translation of course!

So CNT´s are sometimes marked Peyo and had a CNT sticker? Why would they only mark some of them with peyo? Could be like you says Joaquin that they made this because they tried to get the license. But why add the peyo marking before getting the license?
But your story could very well be the genuine one and then CNT´s were never licensed!!

It is always hard to say what is a cnt or not...anyway, I have always thought thta many of the smurfs most of collectors take as cnt are perhaps just licensed smurfs.

Ex...we all know some of the colours variations were sold mainly in a country (yellow scarf, yellow sword of pirata, sold at GB)...Why not to think some variations were made for spanish markings and for that reason the makers of "non licensed" smurfs (cnt) chose the same colours????

At the following pic, smurfs at right are cnt and smurfs at left are marked and licensed...IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!jejeje

So CNT´s are sometimes marked Peyo and had a CNT sticker? Why would they only mark some of them with peyo? Could be like you says Joaquin that they made this because they tried to get the license. But why add the peyo marking before getting the license?
But your story could very well be the genuine one and then CNT´s were never licensed!!

It is always hard to say what is a cnt or not...anyway, I have always thought thta many of the smurfs most of collectors take as cnt are perhaps just licensed smurfs.

Ex...we all know some of the colours variations were sold mainly in a country (yellow scarf, yellow sword of pirata, sold at GB)...Why not to think some variations were made for spanish markings and for that reason the makers of "non licensed" smurfs (cnt) chose the same colours????

At the following pic, smurfs at right are cnt and smurfs at left are marked and licensed...IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!jejeje

That could very well be the truth Joaquin! Everything fits well with that.

But there are also some markings like the Peyo marking on the CNT smurfette. This one never appears on any other schleichsmurfs. If Schleich would have painted some smurfs in certain colours for the spanish market, they would have used the usual schleichmolds???

It seems the ones with markings have markings used around 1978/79. Like mechanic, clown and also the smurfette with peyo markings were made by Schleich during these years.

But as you say it could also just be that the factory you wrote about just copied the german variations used during these years.

Always intresting with these markings!!

Joaquin,

the clown, does this also have W Germany and peyo on the shoes? Except for the emblem under the shoes?

Regarding the orange mechanic.
Would you collectors who have these say that it is possible that many of these were just painted orange by sellers who wanted to get more money for them or are they different in some way from the others? I mean you get a lot more for a orange mechanic compared to a normal one, which are very very common. What marking do you have Joaquin?

Could of course just be that they copied the markings in the beginning and then decided to make them without markings and thought that would be enough???

I don't think mine is handpainted, Andre, but will check when I get them out again soon

Just for thought...a lot of the Dutch fakes (those ugly cheap ones) also have the Peyo marking but are clearly fakes, so just having the Peyo marking is not proof that something is licensed

I think the Peyo markings simply means that the character is from Peyo, but not necessarily that the figurine is licensed..this would be the other marking like Schleich, Hering Brazil, Argentinia Minimodel.

In regards to the CNT sticker...doesn't Comic Non Toxico mean that this figurine is not toxic (as in the material that was used is not toxic)? I never took it as a company name but more as a reassurance label for parents

Only one thing, because today I am really busy: the orange mechanic with marking is not really really hard to find in Spain. I don´t mean it is a common smurf, but from time to time you see those smurfs at spanish lots. Mosts of the times is a cnt (no markings) but sometimes it is marked

I am sure mine are not painted: one is at home from my childhood and I bought the other one for a very small amount to someone who has no idea about smurfs

Hi

Interesting topic ( i like Spanish fakes a lot, there one of my favourites )
sorry for not being around much, but the last week i have been living on the toilet a lot............

Tintin

Hope you are doing better, Frank.

Hi

Interesting topic ( i like Spanish fakes a lot, there one of my favourites )
sorry for not being around much, but the last week i have been living on the toilet a lot............

Tintin

Sorry to hear that Frank!

I hope you get better soon. I also like the spanish ones. So many nice colour-variations!