Blue Cavern

Hi everyone,

I have a question for you. I have got my Italian kickers today and as usual I have tried to date them.

I have come to the conclusion they must have been made around 1986-87. Could that be correct.

If you check this picture and compare the shirt sponsors.

Parma: shirt sponsor -87 Prosciutto Parma. No on this picture but I have it. In 87 parma changed shirt sponsor to Parmalat. On the picture.
Milan: The shirt sponsor FOTOREX U-BIX was only used 85-87.
Cagliari: FOS was used as shirt sponsor in 1986 and 1987.
Roma: used Barilla as shirt sponsor also during 85, 86 and 87. And off course many more years. 81-94.
Lecce: shirt sponsor in 86-87 was alaska.
Lazio: Castor was shirt sponsor 84-86.
Brescia: Fin-Eco was used between 1983 and 86.
Inter: Mitsura between 1982-1991.
Juventus: Ariston used between 1979-1989.
Palermo: Juculano was used as shirt sponsor 1985-1986.
Cesena: Dieci was used 1981-1986. Orogel was used 1986-1990. I have that one also. The the third one I also have is Amadori, which was the shirt sponsor 1990-1992.

So it seems except for the Ama dori that around 1986-1987 could be a correct year for these smurfs.

Another thing some of may not know is that Viola is a knickname for Fiorentina and Lupi is a nickname for Avellino( wolves). And thats the reason for those names on the shirts.

Another funny thing is the Forza Napoli, which is the only one with a number on the back.

And since maradona played in Napoli between 1984 and 1991 the number on the back is offcourse 10.

So FORZA MARADONA!!!

It seems there are 24 teams possible. Napoli I showed on the picture before.

The rest are here. But I don´t have Bari.

Are there more teams?

Sorry I will edit this because it seems it should be 27, because Parma and Cesena and Inter should be on the picture to, they are on the first picture.

Is that correct?

Not sure if this will help, but Dyar has a pretty neat page for them with all of the teams he could come up with

http://sgtpapas.com/FakeItalianKickers.html

I have looked at his page Maureen and I have almost all of them since I bought all 38 Dennis kickers. I know I miss 2 though and maybe some more since Frank siad in one thread there are 40 teamkickers and one Italia. That would mean one more exist??

Davide from Italy told us these were sold for the World cup in Italy in 1990 ouside the stadiums and that would explain why the Cesena kickers have all 3 shirt sponsors used between 1986 and 1990 on the front. So it seems they were made during 1987 and 1990. He also told us they were sold loose for 1000 lire each which is about 0,5 euro then.

Maureen, how do we know these are fakes? Not all licensed smurfs have markings?

Hi Andre

Sorry for not being around here so much.
I made a list ( but i made it quick so i hope no mistakes )
of teams i have ..................

Juve
Milan
Inter
Lazio
Samb
Napoli
Roma
Pisa
Verona
Parma
Palermo
Cesena
Viola
Lupi
Lecce
Genoa
Catania
Toro
Cagliari
Pescara
Bari
Foggia
Bologna
Atalanta
Ascoli
Messina

Greetings Tintin

I've put them in the same category as the CNTs, Andre...not licensed by Schleich because the material used for the kickers seems to be different to that which Schleich used.

Maybe, they tried to get Schleich to release them (just like the CNTs) and they may be officially sold by the Italian Football league, but I have never seen them on a Schleich poster or catalog or gotten any other indication that they are officially licensed by Schleich.

Whether Peyo approved of them or even licensed them..I don't know.

In regards to Davide's story of them being sold at the Worldcup...if that is so, why would they have sold the Italian team colors and not the team colors of the world cup teams?

At one time, David (the Dragon) did some research on these and there is a thread in here about it, I will look for it and see if I can find it

I tried to copy the link from Xaviers`site, but I couldn`t

I try to copy his pictures, hope, he doesn`t mind
I count 44 of them!

Lia

2e

Hi Lia

But i see one totaly white and two times Italy ??

Tintin

I only have a few,so I can`t tell anything about them, it`s just that I remembered that Xavier had them on his site.
But if you don`t count the white one and only one Italia,there are still 42, right?

Hi

True i am looking into it

Tintin

Hi Lia

Juve is double to............... makes 41 now

Tintin

yes, it does!

( Perhaps Xavier liked an even amount and filled up the spaces till he reached that
But I think, he showed all the possible kickers?

Lia

Lia and Frank,

I added the correct teams on the pictures in the same order as Xaviers. And left gaps for the ones he shows and I don´t have. It seems Bari comes with different shorts, red or white. I don´t know what he meant by Juve-esprespassion? On the other ones without forza and team on the front have shirt sponsors-names used by the teams between 1986-1990 on the front and forza and team on the back.

And regarding the knicknames:
Viola is Fiorentina
Lupi is Avellino
Toro is Torino
Samb is Sambenedettese

In regards to Davide's story of them being sold at the Worldcup...if that is so, why would they have sold the Italian team colors and not the team colors of the world cup teams?

That to me seems logic. Because if you look at the teams the have chosen they goes well with the stadiums used. That would also explain why there suddenly is a national team among them. Most likely they, if that information is correct, sold the national team and some local teams at each stadium.

12 stadiums were used during the World cup in Italy and many of those stadiums were stadiums normaly used by the local teams also sold.

Stadiums used:

1. Palermo, Stadio La Favorita: that would explain why a serie C team is among the kickers.
2. Genoa, Stadio Luigi Ferraris.
3. Bologna, Stadio Renato Dall'Ara.
4. Cagliari, Stadio Sant'Elia.
5. Florence, Stadio Artemio Franchi. Fiorentina( Viola)
6. Verona, Stadio Marc'Antonio Bentegodi.
7. Bari, Stadio San Nicola.
8. Turin, Stadio delle Alpi. Il toro( Torino)
9. Naples, Naples. Napoli
10. Milan, San siro.
11. Rome, Stadio Olimpico.
12. Udine, Stadio Friuli.

Also the players in the Italy team could explain some local teams like that Schillaci played in Messina??

Anyway I have no problem with this because I am sure teams would do exactly the same in Sweden if we had the world cup. They would definatly try to sell team items in the hype connected to a world cup!!

So to me it goes very well with the fact that they were made close to the world cup. Also shirt sponsors on the kickers tells us they were made during the preparations for the world cup and during the world cup.

I've put them in the same category as the CNTs, Andre...not licensed by Schleich because the material used for the kickers seems to be different to that which Schleich used.

Maybe, they tried to get Schleich to release them (just like the CNTs) and they may be officially sold by the Italian Football league, but I have never seen them on a Schleich poster or catalog or gotten any other indication that they are officially licensed by Schleich.

Whether Peyo approved of them or even licensed them..I don't know.

They were definatly not made by Schleich, but they still could be licensed by peyo like this unmarked azrael. Schleich have told me before, when I have showed them questionable fakes from recent years, that it is IMPS that desides if smurfs can be made. They only can tell if Schleich-marked smurfs are fakes or not.

We should also know that these were made almost exactly when the Schleich went bancrupt in 1987.