[Tommo]

Hi All,
what is the general opinion of how rare some colour variations which appear in the early 1980's Schleich catalogues are?
e.g. Fisherman with red/white float, Carnival with red/green lantern, Scotsman with brown pipes on bagpipes, etc... and how long would they have been painted like this for? I bought the Cowboy Violin with the dark brown hat around 7-8 years ago when I started collecting, I didn't pay much for it, just thought it was another colour variation like the others, and didn't think much about it until I started looking through the catalogues about a year ago and saw it in there, then realising that I hadn't seen it in anyone else's collections. I've just bought the Carnival with green/red lantern and hope it is genuine, and presume that it is as I've got it from Bernd. Arno, how rare is your Nurse with all white shoes? Martin, you must have had a lot of these? I see Christy has quite a few on her website. How often should we see these variations come up for sale? Which smurfs would you compare these to in terms of varity?
Cheers,
Tommo

[The Smurf Collector]

Interesting topic Tommo.

I believe these kind of variations exist, it is just a pity there are some rogue sellers out there who are taking advantage of their rarity by adding their own paintwork.

[Tommo]

I agree Kath. Bernd has got 2, Scotsman with different colour bagpipes, and fisherman with white/red float, on ebay at the moment. The whites look discoloured otherwise I would consider bidding. But if they are genuine, which I'm sure they are, then they show things you cannot see on the catalogue picture. The ends of the brown pipes on the Scotsman are painted white. Christy, does your Scotsman with brown pipes have white tips to the pipes?
Many thanks,
Tommo

[Arno]

Hi,
I know that Bernd is considered here as a trustful reference but, for myself, I would say that some of his particular rare smurfs, especially colored variations, could rather be some original Schleich painter's smurfs than original Schleich prototypes... Carnival and Scot are so easily fakable.
The nurse I could get was inside a big lot of smurfs, sold by a seller who knows nothing about smurfs ; I have never seen her anywherelse.
I think that all these smurfs pictured in the catalogs exist, produced in small quantities, but which are truly original, that is the question !

[Tommo]

Hi Arno,
yes, I should think it is going to be very difficult to tell if they are repaints or not and will be very easy to fake. There are very few sellers I would trust to buy them from, and even with the ones I do trust there will be a slight nagging feeling in the back of my mind. Unless they were bought at the time of release it will be difficult to be 100% unless maybe from someone who is a long term collector who is selling their collection? Bernd has mentioned in his auction for the Scot and Fisherman that these were Schleich's first variations of the ones from Bully. They seem to be mainly the last ones that Bully produced in late 1979. I have a feeling that Schleich thought it was a good idea to paint them this way at first and then with the extra time and money needed decided it was a bad idea when trying to keep up with demand. The Hong Kong Carnival with red/green lantern I would be very skeptical about as this would have been several years after the W.Germany ones. The Carnival one Ihave from my childhood, so bought late 70's/early 80's, has the waxy orange lantern with mustard dot marking so not sure where these early colour variations would have been released?
Yes, I agree that with a lot of the colour variations from Bernd that they will be Schleich painters' own variations, some of them I can see as being maybe test colour versions, as with the Ice skater who's colours were reversed; yellow scarf, red gloves, which makes me think of the Surfer prototype and Martin's Carnival variation. I personally don't mind these kind of paint variations as they would have been painted by those working at the factory, with Schleich paints, at the time they were produced, and so have an authenticity about them. Repaints are a different matter
Cheers,
Tommo

[The Smurf Collector]

I would like to think that Schleich has records of the paint colours they have tried and used for the smurfs. They may never release this information but I do believe records actually exist.

Perhaps with the smurfs celebrating 60 years they may release a book, that documents all of this.

[Tommo]

Hi Kath,
I'm not sure if they do. I seem to remember that the records that Schleich keep are few, or maybe that they are unwilling to release them. I think it's the first one. I think there was a discussion on it as a way of telling which colour variations Schleich officially released, but I think the response from them was that they don't have records on them?
Many thanks,
Tommo

[Arno]

Tommo, I am just looking at Bernd's Scot : come on, the white spots are so white, you can't believe it is a genuine one. For myself, I don't believe it is.

[Tommo]

Hi Arno, I presume the white spots are painted. I always compare the whites of the hats, etc... to whites of the eyes when buying on eBay as the eyes are painted and generally don’t discolour unless from nicotine, so I can understand why the white on the pipe ends are so white. Whether it’s genuine or not I wouldn’t like to say. That was one of my initial questions: how many of these paint variations would have been made so how likely are they to appear for sale? This is the first one I’ve seen since I started collecting,
Cheers, Tommo

[The Smurf Collector]

What I will be curious to see if any of those colour variations appear on eBay over the next few months.

Also a great tip about comparing the whites, especially when loooking at pictures online.

[Tommo]

Yup, I find it so frustrating Kath when something looks great and then you receive it and the whites are discoloured. The worse ones I find are the Hong Kong ones. The whites a lot of the time seem slightly greyed and off white which is why I now compare them to they eyes. Other times the photos are over exposed so I sometimes request one taken in natural light.
Tommo

[Arno]

Well, in fact, Bernd has already sold a Scot like this one. I have saved the pictures in january 2016... Same markings but different smurf.
On this one, the white spots are so bright : yes, I know it is painted in white, but it looked more natural on the one sold in 2016 !
You know, the most important is to be conviced it is genuine, not really that it is genuine
I think there has been smurfs painted as the ones pictured in the catalogs, but how many ? I am afraid we will never know.

[Tommo]

Hi Arno,
yup, that's the thing, being convinced that they are genuine, especially if you've paid alot of money for them That's one of the reasons I rarely buy rare colour variations... as well the mad prices they go for Marking variations don't seem to be that much of a selling point for a lot of collectors/sellers so you can generally get them for a sensible price and at least know they are genuine. I missed that Scot from Jan 2016! Can you remember how much it went for?
Cheers, Tommo

[Arno]

Sorry, I only saved the pictures ; can't remember the price.

[Tommo]

Bernd has got a Carnival with red and green lantern, but the markings are Schleich, blocked Bully, with a red dot. As André has said, Schleich didn't start blocking Bully moulds until around 1984/85 and the Sri Lanka factory opening in 1982/83. So for this variation combination to be possible Schleich must have been releasing Carnival with red and green lantern for at least 3 years, but more likely due to the blocked Bully for 4-5 years. If that's the case then this should be quite a common variant. I guess it will be will be either an original red/green lantern swapped onto a later marked smurf, or just a lantern which has been painted by someone else at a later date? At least with the markings you can work out if a colour variation is possible. Which also brings into question red/green lanterns with Hong Kong markings?
Tommo

[Bundleofkent2]

Just seen this guys sorry, am writing with my left arm too!!

I first got these from Bernd back in 2004. He got them from an old Bully painter who lives nearby. Bernd lives near both Bully and Schleich

Bernd never never ever sells fakes, I have dealt with him for 18 years.......

Overall they are very rare like a lot of the katalog variations...some more rare than others like the nurse.

Like a lot of things in life you need to trust the seller.....there is a Dutch seller who is selling fisherman red/white with a Hong Kong mark....a really bad fake. You have to use your own judgement.

Unless they are being sold from other collections (like I did), I would be careful ...

The easiest to find is the karneval, I miss him, but will bid on the latest auction....the only one I have never seen is the Bully Amour with the start of the arrow painted red on the inside.............

Remember the paint quality too: Bully paint, like Schleich is professionally done

Some of the Bully variations will occ have a yellow wriiten "M"

Hope this helps

Martin

[Tommo]

I have to say that I can't see why Bernd would fake any, and that is why I bought the red/green Bully Carnival from him. I wouldn't have if I didn't trust him. The latest one I'm just confused about knowing all that I've learnt from here. I did let him know about the blocked Hong Kong Macau marking for the Historical smurfs which he didn't know about. I think we all know the sellers who do sell the repaints, which is just becoming ridiculous now, so blatant. Martin, do you know this seller? They're selling a Fisherman with the red/white float... although out of my price range
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FISCHER-SCHL ... Sw1KxXNOvh
cheers,
Tommo.

[Bundleofkent2]

It's down to Andre that we know the markings so well, his impact on collecting is immeasurable.....I need to tell Bernd that the Portugal mustard dot is not exclusively English!!

I cant explain the Schleich mark on the current carnival, but the colours on the lamp are perfect, so there may have been some inadvertent interchanging etc

Bluenosevalley-I have nothing to do with, poor feedback, and ludicrous, greedy prices

Nearly as bad as certain Italian sellers- seriously do they sell anything good??? What is their marketing strategy??

Are they waiting for a newbie billionaire???????????

[Tommo]

With one of those 'Italian sellers' they've just sold a black and white tennis player, repaint?!?!, for over £80, and a very dark brown jungle for £40... and lo and behold another dark brown jungle has been listed Who's buying these?

Yup, I am so grateful to André for all he has done with the variations and for Kath for continuing with them. This website is an absolute gold mine of information so thank you to Maureen as well and to everyone, yourself hugely included Martin, for all they contribute as well.

I'm happy with my Bully Carnival with green and red lantern from Bernd, so I shall step back from bidding on this one Maritn (I put the first bid in) Hopefully it won't go too high for you. I paid £70 for the Bully one... my wife would kill me!!!

cheers, Tommo

[The Smurf Collector]

It appears colour variations are extremely popular at the moment, which allows sellers to put a high price tag on them. I wonder how long this will continue.

Perhaps the people who buy these, are they type that are also happy to show off their latest prize on platforms such as Facebook, Instagram etc.