[attombomb7]

By the way: I make no apologies for the comments above. Take it or leave it.

Excellent post, Dragon. I agree with you and I think that's why I rarely look at the DSK. If a group of collectors, such as our group, instead of sellers, were to collaborate, we could come up with a much better documented smurf "bible"

hi! I totally agree with the fish lady! Eggie and many others on this site
know way more details on the smurf collections.

I think that the Katalog was put out years ago when alot less was known
about these rare smurfs, and fakes. it seems to be adjusted slightly
every few years. but not accurate enough for a bible to smurfs.

and it appears it won't be in the future either. as there weren't enough
expensive smurfs to collect years ago, so this makes more of them
to profit from for certain dealers.

we all know prices go up and down according to availability and demand.

today there are hundreds more collectors..who all want rare goodies
and the fakesters fill that .

I prefer a good documentation guide with historical facts on smurfs more.

[Tojo]

I prefer a good documentation guide with historical facts on smurfs more.

Well said Attom - I can't agree more. To be honest, I don't care if a smurf is worth €2 or €200. What interests me is the smurf itself. I don't expect to ever own any of the rarer smurfs but it would be good to know what smurfs are out there & to have a good description with photos of the different variations.

I shall still buy DSK V when it comes out as there isn't a ready alternative

[Syd Smurf]

I am kind of inbetween on how I feel about the DSK. I think it's really cool that we get to have one but at the same time it is obviously floored in several areas and should never be called the Bible until it is something completely worth believing in.

There is no harm on being critical on the DSK because it is far from being perfect. However it still holds up as being the best book guide out there and I went from knowing very little to learning a lot simply by having one so it does a lot of good as well. I guess it's easy for me to say that as I know what is real and what is not in most cases. I do believe that this guide should really serve the collectors who do not know a lot so having incorrect info takes away from the guide being a really great one as well.

I still won't slam the DSK because I do believe it does more positive things for collectors than it does negative. However there is no harm on putting some pressure on the authors to come up with something a little more.....say accurate when it comes to listing what is real and what is not. I also believe after studying all 4 editions that the DSK is a constant work in progress. I am sure the authors/contributors are learning all of the time just like we are. I know when this 4th edition came out a lot of us were not the experts we are today but we have learnt and there is no doubt that we have been educated by the DSK mixed in with our own personal experiences through ebay and people we have met on and off this forum. Basically it's good to have a compiled list to start from which is what the DSK has given us.

I for one will be very keen to see the new edition to see how it compares with the previous 4 versions. I think there will be many many changes....a lot of the dodgy smurfs from edition "IV" will probably not appear in "V" .....but I think there will be a lot of new things as well. Either way I think it's better to have a DSK than not have one and I can't wait to hold discussions about it with all of the members here. I am sure there will be quite a few differing opinions which kind of makes this hobby the interesting one it is.

Dyar

[Tojo]

Well said Dyar

[XoioX2000]

I do agree the DSK is great to help newbies start their collections. All of thus have at some point of another used the DSK and still use it today.

However as a collection grows, rarer parts are sought... and that's where the DSK fails you: The prices are wrong, the variations are made up, alllowing some people to profit from newbies and it doesn't matter which way you look at it, I cannot agree with that.

Be honest and tell me really what you expect from DSK 5? Do you really think there is going to be so many new variations that you have never seen before? Are you gonna trust them?

In my view, the first 3 editions of the DSK were the best with DSK 2000 being probaly the best compromise between being as complete as can be with little amount of mistakes. However following the same line of thought, DSK 4 is a joke. Some items should have never been shown in that book.

I do question the "learning curve" of the authors because in the mean time it gives them complete control of the market and particularly the prices. If Smoefers (or Gashers) was not probably the biggest shop for Smurfs after Schleich then I would be more understanding.

[Pitufo]

Be honest and tell me really what you expect from DSK 5? Do you really think there is going to be so many new variations that you have never seen before? Are you gonna trust them?

I am not sure what I really expect from DSK V...Perhaps I expect some of the fakes you can see there will dissapear, but not sure...And I would like we can watch a big section for CNT and for Argentina minimodels...I have been thinking about minimodels at DSK recently and after reading some of the comments of David, I think that they doen´t appear at DSK because perhpas this kind of smurfs is hard to find for DSK´s editors...

HAVE A NICE WEEK!!!!!!!

You know I use the book as a guide at fairs, and I must tell you a confession: because of my english, is the best way to tell to the sellers: do you have this one????

[eggie smurf]

...Perhaps I expect some of the fakes you can see there will dissapear,

This is one of the biggest things I expect too - as well as the rare "testversions" to be removed or Kwak items being removed as rare smurf items. Other than that, not too much - maybe they should do away with the prices too or put a broader range in, but I'm not sure if that would work either

[steveparkes]

One thing that has always bugged me about the DSK is that they have lots of 'rare' smurfs in there..but official SCCI smurfs aren't even listed (apart from 1 gold pig in the latest catalogue)

[Syd Smurf]

I do think some of the dodgy variations will disappear....each edition seems to have something that disappears in the next......of course then we get new ones which is not so good.

It will be very interesting to see what happens anyway

Dyar

[XoioX2000]

Ok I take your point about DSK 5: I have never considered that items would be removed from the catalogue... interesting point...

But can you imagine the number of people asking about their favorite smurf variations having disapeared? All the sellers making money while "using" these entries, suddenly saying, how are we supposed to sell this now?

That would be a very bold move, but in any case a very difficult one: People will complain either way: sellers, collectors... This could potentially bring the whole reputation of the book down... worse than leaving the entries in there: that way, it's only us moaning, well, ok me, mostly...

For that reason, I don't think many (if any) of the dodgy items will be removed... or it will need to be acompanied by a very strong statement of intentions...

We shall see...

[Smurfysmurf]

Frankly, I am now very much anticipating the arrival of the new DSK...if only to see what happens

When I first got the book I used it as a checklist until I realized that I have markings that weren't in there...lately it has been more of a reference guide for sockels and promos for me (not for the prices though as the market value tends to change a lot)...

I am very much looking forward to the release of the new DSK and the ensuing discussions here....

But I also think it is great that we can have an open discussion about things like this on here without getting any feelings hurt (or at least too many )

[Syd Smurf]

I have never really paid attention to the prices in the DSK and if I was to ever do one myself I wouldn't even bother with prices as they are worth as much as someone wants to pay as we all know.

I never use the DSK anymore as I have my own smurf catalogue that I have been using for about 3 years which is far superior for variations. However it was based on the info I gathered from the DSK originally but I have deleted quite a few of the listings as I know they are incorrect or do not officially exist. I am still finding new variations too which I didn't think I would do. I think I added something like 18 new markings to my collection in the first week I arrived in Belgium which means that there are still a lot more out there and I will keep searching for them over the years.

I do hope that "sonstige" will be removed as it's kind of useless and I do wonder if it will be in English this time as I know that was the plan a couple of years ago as I was asked to help with that.

We are gonna have a great discussion once a lot of us have a copy of the new DSK and I am sure we all will learn tons by doing so.

So far we have had covers in gold, green, white & red......who wants to guess what the new colour will be? I will have a guess at black......Syd seems to believe that he will be the central figure on the cover surrounded by Rollerskaters.....I don't have the heart to burst his bubble....not right this minute anyway.

Dyar

[Michelle]

Hi everyone,

First of all....great discussion!
Sorry I wasn't a lot on the forum lately (too much work) but someone told me I had to read about the errors in the DSK. So here I am...
After a lot of reading I can say...

I agree a lot with David and Dyar!
But not all!

The results of all this:
It's not Schleich who is making this DSK ---> The maker don't know exactly if this smurf was sold once or not? (It's not that easy to get information about every smurf)

Keep next tought in the back of your head ---> he is a seller...but is it him or someone else who's the best in making stamps???

An other country ---> other rules? Other colors?

About 5 years ago nowone knew about the Mini models, Hering from Brasil, more CNT's, ...... so how could this be possible to put them in this DSK?

About the marking HK from the Historical set ---> even from the normal one I do have a lot who are not in the DSK! I'm sure next time there will be more inscriptions of every smurf...it should be!

Making a catalog isn't that easy because Schleich isn't making himself! The man/seller is making this book with his own thoughts and help of some other people (sellers/collectors). You can't know everything! When you do, you are alone on the planet!

Maybe I forgot to write something but we'll see...bye for now

And I think the next color will be blue!

Michelle

[Guest]

color variations :
==============

my opinion to color variations to the DSK...

The one side argues there a so many fakes in this book with homemade stufff. The other side is claiming the book is missing so many interesting things and variations... it is just incomplete.

I think the author on the book was doing the job as good as possible because he had tried to put everything in there (was accessible at the market at this time)

I'm not the judge for color variations but I see the lot of unknown color variations I have at home and how many are out there ...
....maybe every single color "fake" in the DSK is existing.

And think about the yellow painted jogger smurf. Now I have seen this jogger several times on ebay and also I have now 2 of them at home. That's not a fake it is only very rare.
Think about the Martin's (bundleofkents) astro smurf, my ice lolly, yellow jogger,.... What would you think if someone put into DSK?
I think it is correct regardless the fact the people will start painting

New DSK :
=======

I hope a lot of things are getting a price now. Rare promos are still missing like the Philips cube and I think they should get a price for being comparable.
Personally the prices are only ok for comaring it but they are not market prices. And these days the ebay will show us how rare an item is. So I think the Stattlich Fachingen promo has a worth of 5 Euros but other smurfs are much rarer.

and so on......

[Rachel]

This has been a really interesting discussion to follow and it is great to hear everyone's opinions and info regarding the DSK.

I agree with many of the points being made about Frank doing a great job in producing the book because lets face it, without it many of us would have been completely clueless when we first started collecting and we also have to remember that the first editions were published before the real growth of the internet and therefore it would have been even more difficult to get an idea of what was out there without the DSK (or the KMS preiskatalog).

It has been a long time since I really used the DSK for prices as it is so difficult to value items these days but I admit I am looking forward to the next edition to see what the values are like now and if they have changed at all.

I think we can all agree that there are lots of things missing as well as quite a few dubious items included. Whether these problems will be corrected we will have to wait and see. Let's hope the authors accept they need to be reasponsible with what is and isn't included as so many collectors rely on what they see in the book.

About 5 years ago nowone knew about the Mini models, Hering from Brasil, more CNT's, ...... so how could this be possible to put them in this DSK?

Couldn't agree with you more Michelle. These smurfs will hopefully be included in the next edition now there is a lot more info and examples available.

I was however quite shocked to learn recently that both the Argentina Minimodels and the Brazil Hering smurfs were being discussed by the SCCI many years ago so there were quite a few collectors out there who did have knowledge of these markings.

Like everyone I think, I am looking forward to the DSK 5 and will no doubt spend quite a few hours going through it with previous editions to see what has changed or been added like I did when the DSK IV was released.

[Pitufo]

And I would like we can watch a big section for CNT and for Argentina minimodels...I have been thinking about minimodels at DSK recently and after reading some of the comments of David, I think that they doen´t appear at DSK because perhpas this kind of smurfs is hard to find for DSK´s editors...

Perhaps you didn´t undersatnd what I meant...I agree with Rachel and Michelle that these smurfs were almost unknown yeras ago (I did not know Argentina Minimodels did exist two years ago ), but I think that if they trusted in some collectors to include some dubious smurfs, now is the moment to add them to the Katalog V...The 1st news about this Minimodels you can read it in SCCI´s letters in 1991...

I agree with many of the points being made about Frank doing a great job in producing the book because lets face it, without it many of us would have been completely clueless when we first started collecting and we also have to remember that the first editions were published before the real growth of the internet and therefore it would have been even more difficult to get an idea of what was out there without the DSK (or the KMS preiskatalog).

I have spoken about this book sometimes as a Bible...Well, I must admit it is a big word, but nowadays it continues being the best way for a starter to see diffeernt kind of smurfs ( I know there are some complete webs, but are personal webs)With lots of errors, but as rachel says, it is a very hard job to do...Of course Gaschers is the biggest seller of smurfs, and he earns money with the collector, but who else is disposal to do another katalog? We always will have the same problem: if ten of us decide to do a katalog, we would add some of our smurfs because we do think their are genuine, but someone can think they are fakes, because they have not seen before...Who could say this smurf do exist or this smurf does not exist: I think about licensed, the last word is at Schleich...
You know I have a clothes store: well, I can say 100% if a concrete item has been sold in my store or not...So only Schleich can say if a smurf has been produced in mass from their factory, or if they made a limited edition of a smurf, or if they made only one for the boss son...

I have said sometimes about a concrete smurf that he is fake...Who knows? Perhaps the collector who has this smurf has thousandsof reasons to say it is genuine...

We all must wait until the new Katalog can be bought and hope some od the dubious smurfs will not be there...





PS: can you imagine what would happen if suddenly Schelich published a list with variants of smurf they never produced????

[Michelle]

Well spoken Cheesy, Rachel and Joaquin!

I told before...maybe I forget something to write down well here I'm back to rock and roll!

About the catalog of SCCI...ok they did mention about the Minimodels but the bookmaker need at least 1 smurf in his hands to show in the DSK and the perfect inscriptions of it...so as long as he don't know anyone who has it's hard to put it in the DSK. I know he do this sometimes but then it's a publicity....and with those the inscription doesn't matter that much.

About the value of the smurfs....
I know some smurfs have crazy values in the DSK. But others don't.
When we met a newbie who has just bought a DSK we always say...don't mention the prices. It's more a guide from all the models who excist!
And thanks to the DSK we can say by nr wich smurf we mean for talking about it. Isn't it?

Ciao for now
Michelle

[Bunno Smurf]

Very interesting discussion everyone and a lot of valuable information there. I agree that it'd be hard to produce a smurf guide with accurate information especially as Schleich seems pretty tight lipped about the goings on from what I hear. I think David has a valid point though too that you have to look at motives for some prices of items in the DSK.

Personally with the DSK prices I use them more as a guide for how much each smurf item is worth in relation to another. So say for example a normal is valued at $6Euro and a Historical at $40Euro I know I can expect to pay more for the Historical. I think if you remember its a "guide" and use it as such then its ok as a piece of literature.

[Michelle]

That's great how you discribe it Linda!

Michelle