[new-swede]

Hi everyone,

wouldn't it be great to have a databased website for all the smurfcollectors where you can keep track of your collection using all the information the community is putting together here? Especially with all the smurf-variations that André and other collectors are listing here.

Everyone is keeping track of his collection in different ways for example some sort of excel-list.

But for that you also have to always look on different collectors websites and search here in the forum to see which variations or smurfproducts do exist to compare the one you have or which ones you are looking for.

Since some month I am thinking about a website where all the information about the different variations and also other smurfproducts could be stored in a real database where the users than can mark the smurfs/products they have, can create a wish- or tradelist and so on.
Just one example what the website could provide in addition to just keeping track of your smurfs: when you mark a smurf(-variation) as "want it" you might get a list of other users that have this one on there "have one for trade"-list.

I have very concrete ideas for the website and I also think there could be a way this "collectors website" generates money, for example if smurfdealers pay a fee to have ads on the site (just one idea of some more). That way an administrator and programmer could get paid for their work on the website.

The problem is that we would need someone who could program a professionally online-database.
I know people, but they would be expensive as they just would see it and calculate it as a regular job.

Is here maybe a smurfcollectors who is also a programmer and would be interested in such a project?

I am looking forward to the thoughts of other collectors about such a project?

[Tintin]

Hi

Well i like the idea, but not sure if it's going to work.
Some people like myself and Andre are going so far in differences.............
Like Mark on left food, right food, big letters small letters.
Some seem to collect even the numbers on the smurfs.
I am afraid the file would and up that big that it's hardly to work with.
Making one myself in an excel file and i am already busy for years.

Tintin

[Smurfysmurf]

I think something like this was tried years ago but don't know what became of it.

I agree that while it may not work for all collectors, it would be a wonderful tool for new collectors as it also would hook them up with sellers

I know next to nothing about setting up a database (just know running a website or forum costs money ) so I can't help with the set up but would be willing to help out with pictures once it gets to that stage

[Simon X]

That's funny: A few minutes ago I completed my first version of an graphical user interface for me to upload new smurfs on my website. Here you can see a screenshot of a part of it (in German): Screenshot.

There have been discussions about this topic before: Here and here.

I have already said a lot about this kind of project, so I'll keep it short now: That's an interesting idea and I'm sure it's possible to program it (my website is based on a database and the screenshot above shows what an interface for users could look like), but there are - as Tintin mentioned - some problems: Everyone has another style of collecting and maybe wants to have an own website, smurf vary in the smallest things,...

And there would be a lot of questions to answer: What a design, which language(s), what a user system (including admins and so on), what kind of categories for smurfs,...

[André]

I think it is good with many different websites.

Regarding the variations we comes up with I am listing them all on my website, which I try to do like a catalogue together with the complete history as we know it so faar. I think many collectors wants a simple catalogue with all markingvariations and that is what I am trying to do. I am not that fond of adding money into the site with sellers, ads etc. This usually also means troubles, conflicts etc.. and also addapting to their wishes??

But I think this forum is the centre of that wheel and it is so good that we have different website, with different looks and also different ways to show the smurfs. One thing we could add here though is wantedlists for trade. That probably would be the easiest way. I am sure collectors like Simon have that knowledge. When I was working with computers we had o lot of these searchfunctions using macros, SQL etc. or whatever they use today?? In this case it could be a page where you just add articlenumber, country, marking, sell, trade, buy etc. Maybe maximum 10 fields and then the macro search trough the wantedlists and show which collectors want these and which have them for trade or sale. When leaving one field blank all items in that column would show. So for example if just writing 20001 you would get hits on all papas on the wanted lists. I think this is very basic knowledge for technicians and I had people doing these kind of search-functions for me many times.

Another way is would be to start a thread with wanted and tradelists. Only one post for each collector. And then with the edit function the collectors could add or remove smurfs. And use the PM function to deal with the collectors.

Also the lists could be in the profiles for members??

I think the possibilities and ways to do these things are endless and way outnumbers the members here!!

But many of the simpler tools for wantedlists could already exist on the site??? And I am pretty sure collectors like Simon could add that function easily on his website!!

[André]

Maybe the searchfunction here could be modified and adding a new one only searching the lists. You already have fields to be used, just needs to be changed.

Basicly many of the tools already could be here??

[new-swede]

Thanks for your replies.

I would have answers to all the doubts here and i could write a lot of concrete ideas but I first wanted to get an impression if something like this would get a general positive feedback.
I am a bit surprised about the doubts.
I know such collector-database-sites work for other collecting areas and are very popular (Boardgames, Comics, Lego...).

I also like all the different websites from the collectors, but I am sure from 100 collectors are 98 that don't have their own website to show of and keep track of their collection. And they surely would love use one of those websites to keep track of their collection with just marking the smurfs they see there.

André, it is funny that you mostly say that the forum can keep track of all the information for the collectors and yet you are creating a website putting together all the information
I am just talking about a more advanced version which gives the people also the possibility to mark the smurfvariations they find on your website. Otherwise they have to write down somehow and somewhere the information to use for their collection.

The forum would always be needed to discuss new variants. All the other collectorsites have a strong and very active forum. But a forum is best for discussions and not for keeping track of hundreds or thousands of database-like information and pictures.

I am pretty sure that it is possible to create such a website to full fill the need of 99% of the collectors. You could even keep it somehow flexible for extrem collectors to put in their own "fields".

I programmed about 15 years ago with databaseprogramms but I could not program with the modern databases especially not in connection with the internet. But because of my background I have a very good understanding of what is possible and how it works. And many of you would be surprised what is possible.

Simon, are you a programmer? I live in Sweden but I am German so if you wanna talk with me about this in German?

[Smurfysmurf]

Andre, the search function can be limited to the "boot section" only if a member wants to search only the boot section...and everybody is welcome to put their want and/or trade list on there...that's what the section is for . I try to keep that section pretty current, so threads should not get lost in there as they might do in other more active sections of the forum

If anybody on here knows about phpbb2 which is what this forum is run on, please send me a pm, and we can talk more about some possibilities that can be done..and I really need to learn more about phpBB


Guido, how do the other collector's sites keep up with the cost of the collection sites? Do they have adds on there? Can you post a link to one of them, I think it's easier to get an idea of what you are talking about when we actually see it

[André]

André, it is funny that you mostly say that the forum can keep track of all the information for the collectors and yet you are creating a website putting together all the information

OK, maybe I am selfish???

The reason I write here about all things I find out is that I want to share it! I thought that was a good thing???

Just like the SCCI letters, which are very useful!! , I am trying to write the story on the website I am making. Not just showing pictures. The reason I do this is because I want to pass this forward to all other collectors. Just like the information saved in the SCCI letters are passed to us. Just think about how much knowledge would have been wasted if the letters had not been written and saved.

I am not trying to copy any other website, but making a different one. With, just like the SCCI letters, information and history about every single martking- and paint-variation. AND share that with EVERYBODY.

At least from where I am standing that is a good thing????

And the forum is fantastic when talking about variations, but I many times have trouble finding old information and going through old posts to find that. So that is why I started the website!!??

The type of website you want is a very good idea. But I don´t see what it has to do with me making a website???

[Tintin]

Hi

Both are great ideas.............and i wish it would be possible.
I am just afraid that there are so many way's to collect.

Most people "only" collect models, so for them it's not important which country the smurfs are from.
But for me it's very important, like even if HongKong is on the left foot or right foot.
Big letters or small. With W. Berrie and without etc etc etc........
So a database for all collectors would be difficult i guess.
But the idea sounds nice !!!

Tintin

[new-swede]

Hi André,

I think you understand me completely wrong.
I didn't mean to criticize what you are doing in any way. The information in this forum and especially what you are doing are extremely helpful!
I just wanted to mention that somehow my idea of such a website did not get good feedback but on the other hand you are just doing what I am talking about: putting together all the usefull information about the variations on one website for all the collectors out there. Not everyone joins a forum to look for variations and as written before a forum is also not the best way to keep track of all the information. That is why you yourself are doing a website although all the information can be found here in the forum
My idea just would be to take such a website some steps further.

The website still would need the help of the forum to discuss and show new variations that could be put into the website. A website just would be more easy for collectors to look through and keep track of all the variations than searching in a forum for it. And in addition such a website could implement very usefull functions.


Maureen, two examples:

A great website for boardgames is "BoardGamesGeek".
I don't like the startpage so it is best to look at an example with a game:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2651/power-grid
For a "non-gamer" there are overwhelming information but for a gamer like me that is exactly what I need to keep track of my boardgames and looking for specific information. And when you are registered you have a lot of options to keep track of your games and to let others know if you have one for trade or are looking for missing parts. And when you "want" a game you see if there are ebay-auctions or dealers who are offering it or if someone is willing to trade it and so on.
Of course you can propose new information to an administrators if you think you found some errors in the description or have missing or better photos and so on.

Than there is a website for Kinder Surprise but without any tradefunctions or similar. That one is more like a catalogue:
http://www.ue-ei-portal-sammlerkatalog.de/index.php

I don't like the designs of the websites but they have a lot of the functions that I am looking for.

[new-swede]

Tintin,

no problem at all.
Let the collector choose his style of collecting like "Beginner", "Advanced", "Expert" and "Master".
Depending on that he will have and see more or less options to keep track of for his collection.

The "beginner" would just see the most common variant of a smurf and can mark it as "have it" (with a number if wanted) or "want it" and/or "have it for trade".
The "advanced" collector could see the most important variations like the wizard with grey hat and with black hat.
And so on...
And you always can switch between how many information/variations you would like to see.

So starting as a beginner you later might want to look deeper into the variations of the wizard and just click on the "next level". There you will have more variations depending on how "deep" you want to go into the variations.
This is a bit difficult for me to explain in short in english.

[Tintin]

Hi

No problem, i got the idea of it.
Still don't know were you would start, but it sounds good to me

Tintin

[Smurfysmurf]

Guido..I think the idea is worth pursuing (like I said before)...we just need somebody to take it on and run with it.

I don't know enough (nor do I unfortunately have the time right now) to set up a database like this so I won't be of any help in this regard..but it would be great to link both sites (this forum and the database) together as I think a lot of collectors (not all..but a lot) will use it.

I am not sure if you are looking to run the database on the server of this forum..if so, it won't work as there just is not room enough on it..we are constantly running out of room..or are close to running out of room, and I always have to relink pictures to make sure the forum keeps on running...so while we can definitely link them together...we can't have the forum and database run on the same server...

Collectors will always have different ways of tracking their collection, so this would be one of many options, but I can see this becoming a preferred option of tracking their smurfs.

[Tojo]

I like the idea. I don't have my own website & don't have the time, knowledge or patience to attempt to create one. I collate the information I have in a word document & an excel table but my collection is getting more & more difficult to keep tabs of.

An online database which members could use would be great.

[new-swede]

Maureen, i think it would be not just great to link both sites it would be very important to have this forum linked with that website. If you are checking a smurf you also get links to adequate topics in the forum if you want to discuss or ask something about that smurf.

I am sure that website would need its own webspace/server.

And yes collectors will have different ways how to keep track of their collection and such a website will never be able to fulfil the needs of all collectors. But surely way over 90% of the collectors.

"How to start?" that is the big question.
Because I believe that the website/database needs to be very professionally right from the start to be a real success we would need a real programmer. I talked with a friend who is doing such projects and he told me that creating such a web-database would maybe take 4 month for one fulltime programmer.
The problem is how to pay such a person because the chances are very little that someone would do this for free
I don't know if it possible to find someone (maybe a student) who would do this with the option to get money on a long term when the website generates money.
And I think the chances are not that bad that the website could generate moderate income to pay a long term fee to the programmer and also to pay for the webspace and others who would work on the website (like administrator, moderators, translators).
I don't want to go deeper into how this could work but I know the guys from the biggest German online comic-marketplace and they make enough profit with their website.
To make this clear the website would be completely free for everyone to use it to keep track of their collection and see all the information. Just one(!) example of what could generate some income would be smurfdealers who pay a fee to be connected to the website.

[JamieD]

I think it's a great idea, and absolutely do-able (I have stamp collecting software somewhere that tracks all sorts of variations, history, etc..you don't have to use all those features, but it's built in if one wants it). I'd love to have something like that as a reference, for sure - it would make keeping track of variations, etc much more efficient. That's what databases do - they make stuff like this easier and faster.

If I had more time, I'd offer to work on it, but unfortunately I'm overbooked as is. The database itself wouldn't be all that difficult, but the site/server admin on something like that would be...daunting, I think. Mainly because of the account set-ups & admin, though in the hands of a decent programmer most of it could be automated (my programming skills are pretty average, and I don't particularly enjoy it).

I wonder if something like that could be built on a Ning network, or Dispora (sp) or something like that? With those, the underlying social network structure is already in place...

[Smurf1303]

I like the idea very much. I have been trying for the best part of 5 years now to compile forum feedback (and basicaly only from this smurf forum at that) into records on each smurf, it's a big job (quite aside from any technical skills).

One of the issues I have had though is now to define the markings (and indeed colour of the smurfs themselves).

So take 20070 Harp (just bought a new version so he springs to mind). You'd want to talk about the foot markings, but if you say left foot, which do you mean.
I have SCHLEICH, Schleich Bully (the round childish writting of Bully) and a hardcarved Bully. Now I know what I mean when I say the childish writting of Bully but would everyone else?
Then ther are the colours of the harp, all 4 of mine have a slightly different shade of harp, but how would be compare the colour harps I have to someone else, Internet photos are only so accurate.

Then (maybe not so much here but for others), how/who decides which are paint errors verses variants, not to mention fakes. I say have a tracker with green bundle, bought a few years ago when ebay was awash with them, probably a fake but I don't know for sure. I think any site we built would have a factor in notes on disputes/queried classifications.

I'm not trying to pour scorn on the project, I would love to be involved in it but I think we would have to put quite a bit of work up-front into what exactly what we wanted to report on and how/who would classify

[André]

I don´t know which marking you mean with childish???

I agree with you completly about the differences between collectors in catagorising their smurfs. We all have different opinions on many things and that I think is really good, since there are so many things we can´t be sure of.

Most collectors need a picture I think. I mean when writing Bully, W Germany, peyo, that could be maybe 3 different markings used??

Many collectors use other collectors websites, sellers websites, sellers catalogues, Schleich catalogues etc. when catagorising their smurfs, but finally also make some kind of personal system( excel, notes, website etc) adapted to what they find intresting.

That is also why it is so good with different sites, and why collectors prefers checking different sites. It all has to do with what you find intresting. If you are a beginner you would probably just finding it annoying when they show 10 almost the same smurfs but with very smaller differences?? I know I did maybe 5 years ago?? Why show so many when they look the same?? But now when trying to figure out the history of the figurines, those smaller differences are extremly intresting instead!

The same with paintvariations. many collectors don´t care if it is a genuine Schleich-release or not. If they think is looks nice they want it anyway. That is why homemade variations many times can go for higher amounts compared to genuine ones. And some collectors also would like to catagorise them with the genuine ones. And they maybe would like homemade and customized variations on a website also??

We all collects in different ways and therefore also the websites are different. And that is what I like!

[new-swede]

Smurf1303,

I really understand the doubts many have how it would be possible to fulfill all the different needs of the collectors.
But first of all I think there will not be that many collectors (compared to the amount of collectors over all) that have such special needs that could not be covered by the website.
And secondly everything you can write down in an excel-sheet you also can write down in an online-database. Just give the collectors some fields for their own descriptions. They can name the fields how they want and fill it with special information.

I think all the different markings are the least problem as photos say more than thousand words and you can have a photo for every different marking. Is one missing the user who has it just can make a photo and upload it for a moderator to release it.
How to deal with slightly different color-variations for those who are collecting those could need be a bit more thinking. But here I could state on the above: everything you write down in your excel-sheet you can write down in this online-database. And it would also be possible to have the option to upload photos in the database that are just for your own use. For example a group photo that you did from a smurf with the slightly different color-variations you have.

About "paint errors verses variants, not to mention fakes": Here comes the forum into play. The forum will decide how to classify those and how they would be listed in the database.
The good thing about the database will be. If someone finds a new marking/variation (or even a paint error) he can make a photo of it and upload it. Than every other user/collector of the website gains from it.

And at last I just want to repeat what I mentioned before about the different type of collectors:
>Let the collector choose his style of collecting like "Beginner", "Advanced", "Expert" and "Master".
>Depending on that he will have and see more or less options to keep track of for his collection."