[André]

The idea sound fantastic Guido!

And the best thing would be if you had someone do a testversion of such a site. I think it is very hard for many collectors to picture exactly, what you write, should look like on a website.

[new-swede]

André, i am really happy that you like it
It would be very important to have you in the boat with this

The database itself might not be such a big deal (at least for someone who knows what he is doing). More challenging would be a functional but at the same time really nice looking design. Especially later on with functions like contacting trade-partners. Using it on a smartphone ...
Also implementing not just PVC-smurfs but maybe all the other smurfy stuff even though we would start with PVC-smurfs. But it also is important to have in mind what could be added to the website in the future so that it would not be that difficult to add something to the website.

At the moment i am trying to find a programmer.

Maybe i will try to sketch how the collecting part of such a website could look like.

[André]

Hi Guido,

that sounds good!

I must say directly, that I will have very limited time helping you. Because I have 3 kids, working and still want to continue with my historywebsite about Schleich and Bully. I think you understand.

Off course I can help with pictures or answer questions, just like I do here on the forum, but everything I do, I do when I have spare time because I find it relaxing. I like doing it as a hobby, and knowing I can add something whenever I want depending on the time I have. It can take 2 months between updates on my website!

As said I think you understand and it is better I say it now so you know it.

Maybe someone else has more spare time and can help you?

But off course I will help with pictures and information if I can.

For me the most important thing is my family and I adapt my "smurfing-time" to their wishes.

[new-swede]

Hi André,
for me it is most important that you think the website would be a good project and that we can use your knowledge.
At the end the more of the collectors and users in the forum think positiv about this project the easier and faster it will be to fill it with informations and get the help to promote the website when it will go online.

Simon X and I have now started to work on a prototype. When we have a good base we will start a general discussion about it.

[new-swede]

I would like to ask and start a discussion about how to list the smurfvariations in the database?

The first thing that comes in mind is to use the variation-numbers used in the DSK, because most of the collectors use that one to determine their variants.
And if we would start our own counting independently from the catalogue it might be confusing for a lot of collectors.

But, what to do with the variations within a catalogue variation and most importantly with those that are not listed in the DSK.
There are also some catalogue-variations that are not easy to determine because the DSK just talks about a slightly different color. For example the gardener (20028):
Variant 1: "kräftiges, leuchtendes grün" (strong, brightly green)
Variant 2: "olivgrün" (olive green)
Variant 3: "dunkelgrün" (dark green)
Those are not easy to determine even if you own three different colorvariations of the old gardener. Which one is "olive green" and which one "dark green".

And finally there are also a few colorfakes in the catalogue.

I for myself use in my excel-sheet and on my website at the moment the DSK-numbers and split my variants within a variant (lets say "variant 2") into "2a", "2b" and so on. So if the catalogue mentions a "W.Germany" variant and I found one also with "CE" I would call the one without "2a" and the one with "2b".
And variants that do not really fit to a description/variant in the catalogue I call it "X1" and "X2" and also "X1a" and "X1b" if there are small variations within that variant.
Instead of "X1" I alternatively could go on with the last number from the catalogue. So if the last listed variant in the DSK would be "6" I would list the first unknown variant "7". But somehow I prefer the "X1" because I immediately see looking to my list that this a variant not listed in the catalogue.

Do you have other ideas or suggestions what could be a good solution for the listing of the variants in a database?
Or do you even think it would be better to start a new counting more based on the sequence when they where produced - the information that André is putting together?

[Smurfysmurf]

The different shades of colors will be difficult to track...a lot of those are not even intended variations but might have come about thru age...Not sure I would include those right now..if you decide to do so, you could put a close up picture of the color on the site (in the case of the gardener you could put a close ups of the aprons on there)
Another thing is that there are a lot of different opinions about the different shades..some think they are real variations, others don't consider them at all unless the difference is very easy to tell and clearly intended.

I think your numbering system is good...I'd probably do it by countries
like
A. W. Germany
A.1. W. Germany Schleich
A.2. W. Germany Schleich CE

B. HongKong
B.1. Hongkong, Schleich
B.2. HongKong , Schleich Ce

Personally, (and this is just me) I would probably use the database to keep track of my marking variations as those are the ones I actively look for. I don't look for the different shades of colors but keep them if I find them in a lot...I wouldn't track them though

Hope I didn't make this even more confusing. I am very much looking forward to seeing what you and Simon will come up with

[André]

One word of advice though.

It is something I have noticed when I am making my website.

You should probably start from the beginning only using new pictures and information, because a lot of collectors don´t like their pictures being used on pages with commercial or merchandise interests. And since you have plans involving ads, meaning getting paid, meaning money invoved that is important.

That is why I wrote on my index page that I have no such interests or connections to any company, etc. Also only use a link to this forum, meaning not connected so the pictures posted on the forum also gets on my site. This is very IMPORTANT if you ask me, because it could otherwise lead to that some collectors stop posting pictures on this forum. And I don´t think anyone would want that, right??? And it has happened that someone leaves the forum and also wants all there pictures and posts to be removed!! This would mean that you have to remove all those pictures from your database also if those are connected???

The good thing with this forum is that it does not have any such connetions, to sellers sites.

And for me it is also very important that all pictures are marked and gives full credit to the owner of the pictures, as with all information given, if not written yourself. That has to do with respect for other collectors and for the work they have put into this. So basicly all pictures have to be approved to be used by the owner.

Especially since there is a big difference between educational use( meaning sharing information without money involved) and commercial use( meaning money involved) and you have plans involving money into the site!!

There is a thing called freedom of press or "fair use", which means you can show a picture without permission of the owner if you use it in educational matters ONLY. But I personally always asks the owners and always puts there name on it when using it on my website.

This is off course a thing you may already have known and have thought about. But I just wanted to add this, because I know a lot off collectors who don´t want their pictures on commercialsites, ebays, facebook etc., because then they don´t know in which purpose the picture are used for.

So basicly don´t use anything without asking the source first!!

Otherwise I think the idea is good and as Maureen says it will be interesting to see what you come up with!

[Lia]

I agree 100% André!
It`s very important that permission is asked before using someone`s pictures!!!!

Lia

[new-swede]

Hi André,
thank's for your words. I am and was already fully aware of all of that
I myself work with illustrations for different use and there is one very important thing involved: "copyright"

Everything that will be used for the website will not be without the permission of the respective copyright owner and without mentioning him!

And in the beginning the database would be without any commercial parts, but it will be something for the future, because with all the functions i have in mind for the database it surely will need some money to maintain.

That would also include for me the question how I.M.P.S. would look at such a website.

[André]

Hi André,
thank's for your words. I am and was already fully aware of all of that
I myself work with illustrations for different use and there is one very important thing involved: "copyright"

Everything that will be used for the website will not be without the permission of the respective copyright owner and without mentioning him!

And in the beginning the database would be without any commercial parts, but it will be something for the future, because with all the functions i have in mind for the database it surely will need some money to maintain.

That would also include for me the question how I.M.P.S. would look at such a website.

That is also a interesting aspect. As long as you only keep the site as many of our members sites, without any commercial connections, I am sure IMPS, Schleich etc. would have nothing to disapprove about.

BUT when money gets involved they could always have questions, problems, etc.. Who knows??? And that is also why you need permission from IMPS if you would like to print a catalogue and start selling it, meaning involving money!!

For example many have told me you are not alloved to use the word smurf in the "URL-name", because IMPS have the rights for that name. And if they can do that there probably is a lot of things they can do if they want??? That is also why I don´t want my site to have anything to do with money and that is a good way to make sure not getting ugly surprices, regarding IMPS??

[André]

I agree 100% André!
It`s very important that permission is asked before using someone`s pictures!!!!

Lia

That also goes for information Lia!

For example I don´t think Paul Kraut likes if I copies the things he have written in the new Schleich book, without giving him full credit for it. Meaning telling I am qouteing him or telling I am using the information from his book.

Those for me are very important thing if you want to be serious!!

[André]

That would also include for me the question how I.M.P.S. would look at such a website.

Maybe you should look that up first!!

Because I don´t think it would be so fun if IMPS when you are already finished and have spent several hours on this, thinks it looks like a catalogue about the smurfs with commercial interests and deside you have to pay or at least shuts the site down???

So if you want to make it like a smurf catalogue and also involves money, maybe you should check that before making the site?

[new-swede]

if i intend to include some kind of commercial aspects into the site i am surely first will conntact IMPS or whom else also could be affected.
and i would also talk with a lawyer about all of this, because IMPS might tell you you have to pay for something just because you don't know better.
but maybe depending on how you realize it there is nothing to pay for.
just one example: i don't think ebay has to pay something to imps eventhough they are making money with the selling of smurfs. or dealers for listing the smurfs (like a catalogue) and selling them.
with that i don't mean that this website will be a selling site - that was just an example of someone making money with smurfs and probably not paying any royalties to IMPS.


but in the beginning there will be no commercial parts involved. it will be nothing more than all the other collectors sites with the only difference that some collectors use the same website to show off their collection and share informations about it.
somehow you could look at it as the graphical and more databased side of a forum.

[Smurf1303]

Not sure about the legal side, but as regards marking, personally I'm interested in:

Country (including if W Germany or Germany)
Second country (some have W Germany and Made in China etc)
Paint dot
Bully/Schleich and type of the Bully/Schleich logo
Other info (Applause, Wallace Berrie etc)
Location of the markings
Significant colour variation (if in a 100 pack of crayolas they'd be different colours then yes, like the lute smurf say, but not if you really have to think about it)
Mould variant (say the Virgo smurfette with and without the flower attached)
Year
Machine number (realise most people don't care about this though)

If I can be of any help with the project please let me know.

[new-swede]

I just wanna let you all know that "Simon X" and I are working on the prototype and that we may have something for a first testphase in two or three weeks.

Please let me know who would be interested to help us testing the prototype. We than also would like to discuss with those further details about the website and the databse.
This testgroup shouldn't be to big as it could make the discussions to overflowing.

Maureen, would it be possible to have a topic for this group that just the group could see and use for discussions?

[Smurfysmurf]

I'd be interesting in testing it....and yes, that's possible.

[new-swede]

perfect - both

[Smurf1303]

I'd be interested in testing it too if you want me

[new-swede]

Smurf1303, you are welcome

[Tintin]

Hi

I am still working on a big file i made for my own.
So i know what kind of problems you can have.

Good luck with it, i am curious to see what you guys come up with.
It already deserves a compliment trying to make something like this

Tintin