[ShinySmurf]

For example the pupil 20103.

The Bully museum catalogue says it was made in 1975.

This is if you ask me completly wrong because of these facts.

It is not shown on any of the Bully poster from 1974-1978. Meaning not sold by Bully before 1979. And also the marking on the hongkong-variation of this smurf is given the mold year 1979!! That is also the first time we see this smurf in the stores.

Schleich added the moldyears on these smurfs and they added the year Bully made the molds, like 1973 on jungle.

So if the information in the museum catalogue is correct about the pupil. That would mean this: all posters from Bully from 1975-1978 are wrong. Also the year Schleich added to this smurf is wrong. And also that their would be markingvariation of that smurfs from 1975-1978, which nobody seems to have??? That together with all the information together on the posters, articlenumbers, markings, materials, paint, pictures tells me it is definatly wrong.

Why the museum catalogue made these mistakes??? I have no idea. probably put the wrong person in the wrong place when making it.

Ok I am sure you know more than the company that made them, Jane Klaus, and everyone else at Bullyland.

Have you thought about that the company who made them also made the posters???? But maybe Jane Klaus, who wrote this, knew more about these smurfs than the ones working at Bully in 1976 and were making the posters??

Yes I know they made the posters and old catalogs. That is 100% fact. Yes I know that Bully has a numbering system. That is 100% fact. Jane Klaus is Volkmar Klaus' wife. That is 100% fact.

What you are saying is speculation.

You are convinced that you are correct. That is 100% fact, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Did you ever think that you could possibly be wrong though?

The company I am sure checked some records before building a museum and publishing a book, and I am sure Jane Klaus checked a record or 2 and didn't go by memory when she submitted the list to the SCCI.

[André]

Well,

I can´t say anything more.

We all can have different opinions about the museum catalogue and if you think it is correct, that is your opinion.

And then I have to re-write the smurfhistory also, and that not only is my website. Since most collectors think the moldyears are at least appriximatly correct year it was made???

[André]

By the way,

maybe I should ask my wife to write the smurfhistory, then it could probably get closer to the correct years???

Just a joke!!

[André]

Volkmars wife tells us about a kingvariation Bully made in 1973, that is shown in the catalogue.

Have anyone seen that variation???? I have not seen it and can´t see it anywhere on websites???

[André]

Yes I know they made the posters and old catalogs. That is 100% fact. Yes I know that Bully has a numbering system. That is 100% fact. Jane Klaus is Volkmar Klaus' wife. That is 100% fact.

What you are saying is speculation.

You are convinced that you are correct. That is 100% fact, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Did you ever think that you could possibly be wrong though?

The company I am sure checked some records before building a museum and publishing a book, and I am sure Jane Klaus checked a record or 2 and didn't go by memory when she submitted the list to the SCCI.

Wouldn´t you say it is just as arrogant against the company to say that their own posters, boxes, etc. made in the 70s are wrong as it is saying that the information given by them in 1998 is wrong???

And I many times thought I could be wrong, I assure you!!

And I am very convinced that the information given by Bully in the 70s is correct, just as you are conviced that the information given by Bully in the museum catalogue in 1998 is correct.

And just as you, I have no problem with that!!

I am just trying to explain why I think they are wrong in 1998.

[Tintin]

Hi Andre

Do you have a picture from the kingvariation ??
Not sure which on you mean.

I think the forum is a great way to give eachother info and feedback.
I am not always agree with what is written but like you say we can all have our own truth

Tintin

[André]

Hi Frank,

here is the picture.

This is also intresting since all these are described in the SCCI-then as released Bully variations in that letter!!

[André]

Another interesting thing written in the museum catalogue.

They say Bully made the Waldbaur promos in 1984. How is that possible??? Bully was not alloved to manufacture any smurfs after 1 January 1980???

As I have said before, my guess in this case, when checking material, martkings etc. Is that they were made for Waldbaur first time in 1975 and then only the ones pictured on the box was sold. BUT I also think that there could have been later promotions made for Waldbaur with other one-coloured smurfs??? This is off course just my opinion regarding this and it could very well be wrong.

But to me it seems that if Bully made any promotion with smurfs it must have been before 1980. Actually 1974 is also a good year for these, since they are many times unmarked. So maybe they just wrote one digit wrong??? It should have been 1974 and not 1984??

[Tintin]

Hi Andre

I think it's this variation of the kingsmurf.
Seen it to in the catalogue and always surprised me.
Maybe the hard plastic ones ( like the king, flower and flying ) are the first ones ever made but were to ugly to use for sale..........

About the Waldbaur.......... when i was a little kid ( most of the times i still am ) i use to have the yellow shy one. I am 100% positive that must have been the 70 and not 80. Because it was one of the first smurfs i had.
My brother got the orange one with the hamer.

Tintin

[Smurfysmurf]

Isn't that one of the fakes from Holland, TinTin?

I have it as well and the material is nothing like the material Bully ever used.

[Smurfysmurf]

Ok I am sure you know more than the company that made them, Jane Klaus, and everyone else at Bullyland.

Have you thought about that the company who made them also made the posters???? But maybe Jane Klaus, who wrote this, knew more about these smurfs than the ones working at Bully in 1976 and were making the posters??

Yes I know they made the posters and old catalogs. That is 100% fact. Yes I know that Bully has a numbering system. That is 100% fact. Jane Klaus is Volkmar Klaus' wife. That is 100% fact.

What you are saying is speculation.

You are convinced that you are correct. That is 100% fact, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Did you ever think that you could possibly be wrong though?

The company I am sure checked some records before building a museum and publishing a book, and I am sure Jane Klaus checked a record or 2 and didn't go by memory when she submitted the list to the SCCI.

I don't have the museum catalog so can't check myself..does it state in there the dates are the dates the smurfs were first released..or could it be the dates are the dates the molds were first designed?

Depending on the mold, the time of the design to the time of the actual production and release for sale could have taken quite a while especially back in the 70s.

Also...I don't think it's a given that Mrs. Klaus checked her husband's records when replying to the SCCI..she could have based the information on the Museum catalog. We also don't know what research was done when that catalog was written.

We all know that history can be rewritten to fit an agenda...don't know that there was in agenda in this case, however, when given the opportunity of looking at records taken from the time in question..or looking at records written after that time..I will always go with the records written during the time

Might be worth checking though what dates the museum catalog mentions..you could both be right

[Tintin]

Hi Maureen

Yes it's one of the hard plastic ones.............. but most of them only have W. Germany and Peyo on them.
Just a few like the one with the flower and the flying one has Bully on them to.
Never understood why this one was in the catalogue from Bully.
And i believe there is a Schleich moon smurf with red zipper in this catalogue to ?!??!?! So some strange things are in the catalogue.

Tintin

[André]

Maureen, you are absolutly correct about differnces between mold year and the year they were sold. Usually the moldyear, like today on the Schleichsmurfs is approximatly the year before.

BUT in this case also some of the smurfs are shown after they were sold. For example the kicker which got the first number and that mold was made in 1973, according to the Schleich-moldyear added to this mold, also according the first bully poster. Sold in 1974 among with the other early bully smurfs. They date this to 1975. And since they start with year 1973, it must be moldyears they are talking about??? Also the Schleich-poet is dated late, but still all of the schleichmolds are shown at the same time on the poster Bully released in 1975??

Basicly I just think they made a very bad research in their own archives. Unless of course all Bullyposters, boxes etc are fakes???

Also regarding the king. The king pictured in the Bully catalogue from 1974,75 and 1976 are the first large mold king.

Later (mold made in 1976) they made the king looking like the one in the museum catalogue. I would guess fakers just copied that and made the hard plastic ones. I think I have one of these also.

I would be very surprised if any workers from Schleich or Bully ever made that one???

[André]

Here they are together.

Large mold Bully, made 1973-1975
Small mold Builly, made 1976-1979.
Bully marked "fake", I have no idea when it was made??

As you see on the picture there is a HUGE difference in quality.

[ShinySmurf]

Have you thought about that the company who made them also made the posters???? But maybe Jane Klaus, who wrote this, knew more about these smurfs than the ones working at Bully in 1976 and were making the posters??

Yes I know they made the posters and old catalogs. That is 100% fact. Yes I know that Bully has a numbering system. That is 100% fact. Jane Klaus is Volkmar Klaus' wife. That is 100% fact.

What you are saying is speculation.

You are convinced that you are correct. That is 100% fact, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Did you ever think that you could possibly be wrong though?

The company I am sure checked some records before building a museum and publishing a book, and I am sure Jane Klaus checked a record or 2 and didn't go by memory when she submitted the list to the SCCI.

I don't have the museum catalog so can't check myself..does it state in there the dates are the dates the smurfs were first released..or could it be the dates are the dates the molds were first designed?

Depending on the mold, the time of the design to the time of the actual production and release for sale could have taken quite a while especially back in the 70s.

Also...I don't think it's a given that Mrs. Klaus checked her husband's records when replying to the SCCI..she could have based the information on the Museum catalog. We also don't know what research was done when that catalog was written.

We all know that history can be rewritten to fit an agenda...don't know that there was in agenda in this case, however, when given the opportunity of looking at records taken from the time in question..or looking at records written after that time..I will always go with the records written during the time

Might be worth checking though what dates the museum catalog mentions..you could both be right

That is very possible Maureen. The dates could be the year the mold was designed.

You are correct we do not know what research was done. Mrs. Klaus is not only Volkmar Klaus' wife, but she was at the time the Executive Vice President of the company, so I am sure she had access to records of any kind if she wanted them. She could have based completely what she sent in to the SCCI from the Bullyworld museum catalog that is possible, and like you said we do not know what research was done to compile this catalog.

I am sure some kind of research was done because they built a museum with this stuff in it not just published a book.

[ShinySmurf]

Another interesting thing written in the museum catalogue.

They say Bully made the Waldbaur promos in 1984. How is that possible??? Bully was not alloved to manufacture any smurfs after 1 January 1980???

As I have said before, my guess in this case, when checking material, martkings etc. Is that they were made for Waldbaur first time in 1975 and then only the ones pictured on the box was sold. BUT I also think that there could have been later promotions made for Waldbaur with other one-coloured smurfs??? This is off course just my opinion regarding this and it could very well be wrong.

But to me it seems that if Bully made any promotion with smurfs it must have been before 1980. Actually 1974 is also a good year for these, since they are many times unmarked. So maybe they just wrote one digit wrong??? It should have been 1974 and not 1984??

I agree about the Waldbaur smurfs. I think it could possibly be that is a misprint in the catalog, or we could be wrong though I don't know.

[ShinySmurf]

Isn't that one of the fakes from Holland, TinTin?

I have it as well and the material is nothing like the material Bully ever used.

Yes I agree I have that one as well, and it is a fake I believe, and Maureen is correct the material and quality is way off from what Bully ever used.

[ShinySmurf]

Volkmars wife tells us about a kingvariation Bully made in 1973, that is shown in the catalogue.

Have anyone seen that variation???? I have not seen it and can´t see it anywhere on websites???

Where do you think Bully got one to take a picture of, and where did they get one to go in their museum?

[ShinySmurf]

Hi Maureen

Yes it's one of the hard plastic ones.............. but most of them only have W. Germany and Peyo on them.
Just a few like the one with the flower and the flying one has Bully on them to.
Never understood why this one was in the catalogue from Bully.
And i believe there is a Schleich moon smurf with red zipper in this catalogue to ?!??!?! So some strange things are in the catalogue.

Tintin

That is odd that only those few have the Bully marking. The schleich mold moon smurf with red zipper was made by Bully though.

[André]

Volkmars wife tells us about a kingvariation Bully made in 1973, that is shown in the catalogue.

Have anyone seen that variation???? I have not seen it and can´t see it anywhere on websites???

Where do you think Bully got one to take a picture of, and where did they get one to go in their museum?

I have no idea!!

Never seen it anywhere. Maybe it is a prototypevariation like the ones from late 1979 in the Bullythread I started today?? For YOU Shinysmurf!! But I am not sure I will convince you anyway??

But in this case it would be a prototype from 1976 when they made the small mold??? That is just a guess.

And as said before there are a lot of things about the Bully production between 1973 and 1979, that I have not figured out. BUT regarding the order they were sold I am very sure since that is based on the facts given by Bully between 1974-1979.

Basicly I think the pictures in the museum catalogue could be correct. BUT they mixed the years up pretty badly!!

Otherwise for example all smurfs pictured are also all the ones sold according their catalogues.